My name is Jim Grapp, and I was a lost church member for over thirty years, fifteen of those as a Baptist preacher.  The following  is my testimony of how God graciously and gloriously saved me on August 10, 1993 at 4:30 in the afternoon.  This testimony gives witness not only of the goodness of God, but also the deceitfulness of the heart of man and the power of Satan to blind the spiritual eyes.  It is given in the hopes that it will help some who are in a similar condition as I was, of whom there are more than one might imagine.
    There seems to be a tendency in the church today to glorify the testimonies of those who come from extremely wicked backgrounds such as Mafia hit-men, former drug abusers, rock stars, and the like.  Lest some should think that I am attempting to boast of my life, let me assure you that I do not boast of this testimony.  There is little to boast of, having come from a 'religious' background.  I give it for two reasons in particular.  First, that God may get the glory and that some may come to genuine salvation as a result of it.  Secondly, because little attention is given to the religious lost folk sitting in the pews of our churches, who need to identify with one who, in the words of Ezekiel, 'sat where they sat,' and where many are sitting yet.  May this help them to see it and to seek genuine salvation.

    I was raised by parents who did not attend church regularly, but who went occasionally.  I also went with my grandmother when I stayed with her.  So I was exposed to the things of God, and actually had an interest in them, from an early age. But I had little knowledge due to lack of consistent exposure.
    In 1960, at the age of twelve, I attended a daily vacation Bible school at the country church where we attended on the occasions that we did go.  Even thirty-three years later I remember the events of that day quite clearly.  The preaching caused a stirring in my heart, though I do not remember the message itself.  During the invitation, I was moved to raise my hand when the preacher asked who was lost and would like to be saved.  I believe that it was more than just my conscience, as I felt I was a pretty good child.  I had a feeling that I fell short of God's demand, but more than that I did not know.  When I raised my hand, a young boy on my left saw me out of the corner of his eye and, when the preacher urged those who had lifted their hands to 'come forward,' he said, "Why don't you go."  I don't know whether he meant it sincerely or as a dare, but I do know that I didn't see it as a dare, but the prompting I needed to go forward.
    At the front were around four to six of us and the preacher went down the line 'dealing' with each one.  I was the last one he came to and, when he came to me, he asked if I wanted to be 'saved.'  I indicated that I did and he told me to 'ask Jesus to save me.'  I responded that I didn't know what to say.  The preacher had me repeat a prayer and told me that God had saved me.  This satisfied me at the time, because I had confidence that as a preacher he knew this to be so.  Let me say at this point that my understanding of what had taken place was limited to what I have just written.  The word 'saved' was one I am sure I heard several if not many times in my times of attending services.  Yet I had no knowledge of what 'repentance' and 'faith' meant and I don't really know that I even had a feeling of being 'lost' when I went forward.  I did know that I had done what the preacher told me to do and that he said I was alright in God's sight as a result of it.
    About two years later we had moved to another town and I had begun to attend church regularly with a friend of mine.  The church we attended was about a block away from our home and so I was able to walk there.  My parents did not discourage me in any way and seemed glad that I wanted to go.  One of the reasons I attended regularly was that the youth group had several children my age and we had a lot of activities.  I learned more about the things of God and began to understand to some degree the terms 'conviction,' 'sin,' 'repentance,' faith,' etc.  It was 1962 and I was fourteen years old.
    That year our youth group went to a camp in Ohio.  During the 'invitation' God began to move on me in the way he had done two years earlier.  I believed this to be conviction and so I knew that my first 'profession' was somehow lacking, though I really did not know why, and didn't even give much thought to the reason.  I was concerned about my condition to the degree that I again raised my hand for prayer and to indicate this was so.  My pastor who had been watching his young people slipped over to where I was and asked me if I wouldn't go forward to be saved.  I stepped into the aisle weeping and went to the front.  After the pastor dealt with me there I again felt assured that I was saved and, when we got home, I was baptized.
    I was very active in the youth group throughout High School.  I went on visitation, passed out gospel tracts on the streets of our town, took part in the prayer meetings with the adult men, sang with a quartet on the radio, gave devotions, and even carried my Bible to school.  I was called 'deacon,' 'reverend,' 'Holy Joe,' and other things by my classmates for the stand I took.  I was not consciously going about to 'establish my own righteousness,' but did these things because they were right to do and I actually enjoyed doing them.  Church was my life, even at this age.  We lived quite far out in the school district and I took part in only a few extra-curricular activities at school.  I spent my time with the church youth, and during this time I met and began to date the girl who would become my wife.  Many of our 'dates' were youth outings such as skating, bowling, attending youth rallies, hay rides, and holiday parties at the church.  The church was the central part of all the young people at our church.
    When we graduated in 1966, we were married and I went to work at Ford Motor Company and my wife, Barbara, went to work for Michigan Bell Telephone Company.  I thought that I had arrived.  During this time cars were selling very well and I was working a lot of overtime.  I began to attend church less and less and to associate with the men at work more and more.  Few of them went to church at all!  I began to talk and act like they did as well as look like them.  I let my hair grow long, and took my first drink of alcoholic beverages.  I began to curse and tell dirty jokes in order to 'fit in.'  In my mind I was saved but, if confronted, would confess I was 'backslidden.'  In 1969 I took a job at the local race track working on Saturdays and Sundays and so I did not attend church at all during the summer.  Eventually I quit going even in the winter.  I would still admit to being backslidden and felt guilty about the way I was living, but I tried not to think about it too much.
    My condition kept deteriorating through 1977.  I lost a finger in an accident at Ford's and left the plant.  My wife gave birth to two sons and had to quit work to stay at home with them.  I got into financial difficulties and had a hard time finding and keeping a job.  If one had asked me why all this was happening I would likely have attributed it to 'chastening' of the Lord, since I was sure I was saved.  It is true that God was using these situations to deal with me, but not as a result of my being His child.  Also, a lot of my problems were simply a result of irresponsibility and immaturity on my part, God having nothing to do with that!  I remember lying on my bed at night and praying to the Lord, trying to 'make deals' with Him.  I would promise to do certain things if He would respond in the way I wanted Him to.  Of course He seldom did what I wanted Him to do, and I don't believe that when He did it was because of my prayers.
    In April of 1977 there was a revival meeting at the church where I had been a member.  My mother-in-law, who was attending by that time, kept after me to promise to come 'just one night.'  I finally agreed to go just the one night to satisfy her.  When the preacher, Brother Percy Ray, from Myrtle, Mississippi, gave the invitation, God began to deal with my heart.  I began to think about my two boys who were eight and seven at the time.  I knew that they would die and go to hell if I kept living like I was in front of them.  I went forward and 'rededicated' my life to the Lord.  I became faithful to the church immediately.  I got my hair cut, quit swearing, began to tithe, gave up my week-end job at the track, and quit doing all the things that were contrary to the Christian life.  I even began to teach Sunday School.  Let me say here that I did all of this out of sincerity, even as I had done before.  I was not trying to fool anyone, nor did I dread doing what I was doing.  Indeed, the life I began to live brought much more satisfaction than I had known in years.  Though some may say that lost folks cannot enjoy the things of God, let me assure you that there are many who realize that the things of God bring more joy than the things of this world.  And these folks take pleasure in being around them.  The presence of Jesus produced joy in the multitudes.  It was not until He confronted their inner condition that they turned from Him.  I truly enjoyed being where God was operating, but my joy was produced by outward influences rather than an inner condition.  My fulfillment was in doing rather than being.  The sad truth is that I did not know the difference at the time.
    In March of 1978 I went to Camp Zion in Myrtle, Mississippi.  It was at this camp that I felt God was calling me to preach.  I was burdened by the need to 'preach the gospel to every creature.'  I told the congregation of this, and when we got back home I began to study in earnest in accordance with II Timothy 2:15.  [Note: In this second edition of my testimony you will find a defense of my call to preach while still being lost.  It is necessitated by those who say God calls no one who is lost, and you will find it at the end of the booklet - J. M. G.].  I continued going to Myrtle for the next eight or nine years.  It amazed me to see how God operated in the ways He did during the services.  I was able to hear and become familiar with some tremendous men of God as a result of that camp.  I met Brother Percy Ray, Brother Charles Shipman, Brother Mack Hodge, Brother Edgar Paschall, and many others.  Several of these men came to the camp our church held in July each year.
    In July of 1978, Brother Mack Hodge came to the camp meeting hosted by our church.  During one of the services there was an obvious moving of the Spirit of God and there were about twenty people saved as I recall.  During the invitation I felt what seemed to be conviction.  But I reasoned that it must be just the overwhelming power of God and His presence in the service.  After all, I had been sitting under some of the most powerful preaching anywhere, with no conviction, since I had gotten back in church.  Also, my life seemingly bore witness of the change brought about by faith in Christ.  I had little time to reflect on this, however, as my sister came and asked me to go to the altar with her (she was one of the ones who got saved that day).  By the time she had gotten saved, the stirring in me was gone and I thought no more about it.  I never felt convicted again, no matter how much God moved in a service, and I was in a great number of them.
    Our pastor resigned in 1980 and the assistant pastor was voted in as the new pastor.  I became the assistant pastor and served in that capacity for about three-and-a-half years.  God was good to our church and things seemed to be all right.
 In 1984 I attempted to start a church in a neighboring town.  After laboring for one year with no fruit, I reluctantly went back to my home church to wait on God to open another door of opportunity.  Shortly after this, a pastorate opened up in another nearby town and, after candidating, I was voted in as pastor.  This did not work out either, and, after four months, I was voted out.  Partly due to uncertainty on my part as to my abilities to pastor, and partly due to my sons being in their last years of High School and not wanting to move them at what I felt was an important time for them, I waited two years before seeking another pastorate.
    Upon the graduation of my youngest son in June of 1987, I began to seek the Lord's direction for another church to pastor.  I told the Lord I was not going to actively seek a church, but was depending on Him to open the door if I had indeed been called to preach.  I was convinced that God was able to do this and, indeed, the events that came to pass were such that I have to believe God brought them about.  A pastor in our town was contemplating resigning his church due to declining membership and financial considerations.  The work was full time when he had taken it but had gotten to the point where he had to work to supplement his salary which had been greatly reduced.  Unable to find a job that paid sufficiently, he felt impressed to see if there was someone who was already working and looking for a church.  When he found out that I was in that condition, he asked if I would consider candidating.  I did and was selected as pastor by a unanimous vote, taking the church in November of 1987.
    I labored for nearly six years with little success.  We had many visitors, but none joined.  The members that we had were very faithful, yet we could not grow in numbers.  The Lord was very good to us during that time, however, and with just a handful of members we were able to take on and support eleven missionary works.  There were none when I took the pastorate due to decreases in offerings.  The former pastor had been forced to move the church meetings from the church building to the parsonage and rent out the building for the same reason.  God enabled us through His working to move back to the church building with no increase in membership (in fact we had less folks than when I came).  Many more things could be said about God's goodness to us, but suffice it to say that we only lacked the ability to attract new members.
    Despite the good things God was doing, as pastor it was my desire to see more people added to the assembly.  I was beginning to get discouraged and started to evaluate my entire ministry.  Nothing I had been associated with had any life to it.  We were seeing what seemed to be blessings, but it was all in the physical realm.  It was like the Laodicean church which had goods but no God.  It was like Sardis which had a name that they were alive, yet they were dead.  I actually wished I could say it was because I was lost so I could get saved and see God bless my efforts.  But I knew that a person's salvation is not judged by circumstances and so I could not get assurance that I was lost no matter how much I wanted to.  I could not even stir up doubts about my salvation, I was sure I was saved.  (To some it may seem strange that a person would desire to find themselves lost, but if your supposed salvation is barren, in desperation you will try many things to get peace).
    When I thought about my prayer life and how little communion I had with God, I wanted to use that as evidence I was lost.  But then I would be reminded of surveys in Christian periodicals that reveal the 'average' Christian spends less than five minutes a day in prayer, and the 'average' pastor less than ten!  I also knew prayer life is not what determines salvation though I felt a child of God should desire to speak to his Father, while to me it seemed like work.
    I refused to let circumstance or feelings be the basis for determining my spiritual condition.  I had a place and time that I could point to where I had asked God to save me.  I forced myself to claim the promises of God's Word that He would save all those who call on Him to do so.  I had many blessings in my life which I believed were from the Lord (and they were) and I had an ability to understand the scriptures which a lost person is not supposed to have.  I loved the people of God, enjoyed going to church, gave willingly to God's work and could point to many other things which to some degree offset the negatives in my life.  I spent much time trying to rest in the joy of the Lord, the peace that passeth understanding, and joy unspeakable, full of glory, but without success.  I tried to have confidence in my salvation due to the positive things, yet was forced to admit that I desired to find myself lost so that I could get saved and enjoy it.  I just could not seem to come to a place of accepting that I was lost and so I could not get saved.
    Through a camp meeting in West Helena, Arkansas, which is directed by Brother Charles Shipman, I came to know a preacher by the name of Terry Owen.  I felt a strong bond with Brother Terry from the first time we met, and he became a close friend.  As I look back on this I can see that God had a hand in this as well as many other events that led me to a place of true salvation.  Brother Terry had a testimony similar to that of Brother Shipman and Brother Paschall, in that he was a religious person for a long time before he realized he was lost.  I had heard the testimonies of these two men many times and had sat under their preaching many times.  I knew it was possible for one to be religious yet lost, but saw my circumstances as different than theirs.  Now I believe that God brought me into a relationship with them to let me see that I was in the same condition as they were.  It is certain that God knows our condition and sends preachers and people into our lives to deal with our needs. This is not to say that every preacher who comes in contact with these men is lost, but there is a bond that is stronger among those who come from similar circumstances.  I felt closely tied to the ministries of these men and now I can see that it was a result of the needs in my life.
    The church that I pastored had an all-night meeting each May, and in 1992 I had Brother Owen come as one of the preachers.  While he was staying in our home, the conversation came to our testimonies.  Brother Owen had a problem with my testimony, but he and I both agreed that if I felt it was sufficient, God was the only one who could reveal to me that it was not.  I have to admit that as I examined it more closely than I had before, it seemed a little disconcerting to me also.  Yet I managed to stand on it once more.  The all-night service answered several questions for me and helped my ministry, even though I did not get the salvation issue settled.
    I preached for another year with no success in adding members to the church, yet God was good enough to the church to keep me going.  I felt led to have Brother Terry back in 1993, as well as another pastor friend of mine, by the name of Bob Harbin.  Brother Owen preached on the impotent man at the well from John chapter five.  As he preached it, God impressed me that the church had no life and that we were to dissolve, which we later did.  God directed Brother Owen in the same way, but that the message also applied to me personally.  After the message, and during one of the breaks, Brother Terry asked to see me in my office.  He said God had showed him that I was the man at the well.  I was unsure of what he meant at first and thought that he was referring to my efforts at the church, and that God was going to have to give me something in order for my ministry to succeed.  This was true but not in the way I was thinking.  He said again that I was the man at the well.  After he had repeated this several times, I asked him if he was saying that he thought I was lost, to which he merely smiled.  It is strange, but I really didn't know whether to be offended or shout.  As I have stated earlier, I had often been tempted to try and get lost so I could get saved and see if there really was more to salvation than what I had.  There was a real struggle within me and I told Brother Terry that I could not accept the fact that I was lost unless God showed me.  He agreed and let it go at that.
    I returned to the services dismayed and yet excited to some extent.  I had many times that if I was deceived about my salvation experience I was around the right men to get it settled.  While I don't believe in the teachings of Freud and modern psychiatry, there seems to be something in a person which sometimes to reveal their inner thoughts in an off-handed way without realizing it, yet if one could discern it they could see that the person was voicing their true concerns.  Though I did not realize it at the time, I believe that deep down I knew my true condition, but I had lived so long with my testimony that it had become acceptable if not comfortable.
    When Brother Harbin preached, he took his text from II Samuel six and preached on the return of God's ark to Jerusalem.  He mentioned a man by the name of Obed-Edom the Gittite, who was a Philistine.  The ark of God was carried aside into the house of this man and God blessed him even though he was a lost man.  God began to deal with me about the fact that a person can be blessed by God even though he is lost.  Of course I knew this before, but never took it to apply to me.  The problem I had accepting at that time that I was lost was due to the fact that God had not convicted me of this although I had preached and been preached to for many years.  It did not dawn on me at the time, but I now know that this is due to the fact that when God had dealt with me earlier, I had mistaken the conviction of lostness as conviction of being backslidden and needing to get back in church.  I was reminded of a friend who used to tell me that 'a man was no better than his information...' with regards to reaching a conclusion of any matter.  This was one of my problems.  I had tried to rededicate when I should have gotten saved.  Then once I got off track, I just kept getting farther from the truth.  As I said, however, at the time of our all-night meeting I clung to my profession and testimony like a drowning man, but it was to become impossible as God took over.
 I talked at length to Brother Owen and Brother Harbin over the next two days before they went home, but could not get the matter settled.  I went for more than six weeks in that condition until, on Thursday, July 15, I finally knew that I was lost.
     It was four days into camp meeting in Ypsilanti, Michigan, when God showed me beyond any shadow of doubt that I was lost.  During the song service God was really moving on me regarding my spiritual condition.  I told God that if the moderator, Brother Walker, would ask if anyone had anything they wanted to say, then I would have the assurance that I was lost and would confess it.  It wasn't that I was seeking a sign, but I wanted to be sure that God was in this before I made such an announcement publicly.  In fact, I wanted to get saved and then get up and announce it afterwards, but God would not let me do that.  To show how God does things perfectly and will not condescend to our ways, He did not impress Brother Walker to say what I wanted, but rather had him ask one of the preachers to preach.  Brother David Shepard got up and took for his text II Samuel six.  God showed me that He decided the course of things and not me.  The subject was 'Keep your hands off the ark,' and dealt with the fact that 'salvation is of the Lord' as Jonah said.  There was no doubt then that I was lost.  I saw that the problem with my previous professions was that somehow, someone had put their hands on the Lord's work and I missed getting saved.  This is not to say that they did this intentionally, but that it happened.  It may even have been me that put my hands on it, I am not sure.  It is enough to say that I was lost.  I got up and went to Brother Walker and told him I needed to make an announcement when Brother Shepard was finished.
    I knew that my announcement would make some folks mad, some glad, and some would doubt that I knew what I was talking about.  I also knew it surprise everyone, as I had been closely associated with the camp and had worked in it for seventeen years.  Still, I had to get it off of me and tell the folks.  God also impressed me that I was not going to be able to get saved that night.  This was not because He was unwilling to save me, but there some things that I had to let Him show me regarding true salvation so that I did not miss it this time.
    As I suspected, there were several there who did not believe that I was lost, and several who were upset because I did not just get down and pray 'the sinner's prayer,' or 'just believe God.'  This is what twentieth century Christianity has reduced God's salvation to.  It is an assembly line salvation; or a fast food style salvation.  They preach about how old time saints travailed and struggled to get to God; about the 'moaners bench,' etc.  Yet their practice is to get folks to say a few words and claim the promise and that God is obligated to honor that.  This is a lie of Satan and has produced churches awash in lost members; religious, but lost.  After my announcement there were several who announced that they were lost also, but some left the tent in opposition to what I had done.  Others made critical remarks after the services to those whom they presumed were of the same mind as they were.
    I went for another three-and-a-half weeks before God finally saved me for sure and forever.  During that time I read the Bible from a lost man's perspective, seeking the real thing.  I also read messages by such giants as Charles Spurgeon, Andrew Murray, and Charles Finney dealing with true and false repentance, genuine faith, (which is God-given), and other subjects dealing with salvation.  I had much knowledge, but my perception of the truth was slanted.  I did not want to miss God again.  I asked Him to give the peace, assurance and joy that accompany His salvation.  I purposed that this time it be between me and the Lord so I would not need some preacher to bolster my faith and convince me that I was saved.
    After the three weeks had gone by I went Arkansas, to the Mississippi Delta Camp Meeting.  I went with high hopes and expectations because I knew that the power of God would be on the services.  I was excited when the services began on Monday night, but soon lost that feeling when others began to praise God and worship Him.  I could no longer do this because I was unworthy.  I became miserable and thought to myself, "What if God doesn't save me for several days, or not at all this week.  I will be miserable."  I had gone several weeks lost, but it was not as bad as this, because God's presence had not been as strong as at the camp, and I had not been around folk who were worshiping Him.  I realized that God didn't have to save me at all.  I saw that I was like Uzzah in that I was putting my hands on salvation by presuming that God had to work according to my timetable.
    Tuesday morning's services were no better for me, nor were the afternoon services.  As I returned to home of the folks with whom we were staying, I began to read once again some of the sermons of the men of God from days gone by.
    As I read the introduction to a booklet by Andrew Murray, called 'Why do you not believe?,' God spoke to my heart from the first two paragraphs.  It reads as follows;

    'When I recently spoke with you...my soul was filled with deep sorrow over your condition.  I still met with many who with manifest earnestness and spiritual desire were seeking salvation, some indeed for many years past, and who, notwithstanding, had not yet arrived at faith.'
    'This ought not to remain so.  It tends to the dishonor of our Lord.  True religion is thereby brought into contempt, for the world is then right in concluding: the service of Jesus gives neither joy nor salvation.  On young converts your influence is by no means helpful, for your example gives them absolutely no encouragement.  In this way also, the congregation suffers loss, for instead of helping as joyfully active members to build it up, you are on the contrary serving to divide its energies, and you hinder its spiritual prosperity.  To your minister you are often the cause of care and anxiety; you make him dispirited with the thought that the Word of God has so little influence with you.  You spend your life in sorrow and gloom, and you place your souls in peril for eternity.'

    God revealed several truths to me from these paragraphs.  First, that the old-time preachers allowed that a person could have enough knowledge and conviction to know that they are lost, yet not be enabled by God and the Holy Spirit to exercise faith unto salvation!  It revealed further that one can go for a long time in this condition.  I will deal with this later on.  God also smote  my heart with the realization that I was guilty of the things in the second paragraph myself.  I dishonored the Lord; I gave excuse to the lost to condemn Christianity; I discouraged other saints; I divided the attention of the church who had to be concerned with me rather than other lost folks; I caused anxiety in the lives of my friends; and most of all I was in danger of losing my soul but for the grace of God!  I began to see the wickedness of my unbelief and the unbelief in the life of any religious sinner in the same light as we tend to view the drunkenness, cursing, adultery, and debauchery of any other sinner.  I was every bit as vile and thus as lost as they were!!
    There is a song that I love, entitled 'God saves ol' sinners,' and one of the lines in the second verse says, 'Well I wasn't a thief, but I lived in sin's prison...'  God showed me that I was a thief, in that I had appropriated for myself the things of God, to which I had no right, for myself.  I never even thought twice about doing it.  Even though I was like Paul, in that I did it ignorantly and in unbelief, the truth was that I was just an ol' sinner, a religious sinner, but a sinner just the same.  Satan had blinded me with assumed righteousness which God says are '...as filthy rags...' [Isaiah 64:6].
    I began to weep as God dealt with me there, and I felt that I could get saved if I allowed God to finish working.  There was quite a bit of activity and noise in the house, which made it hard to concentrate, so I went out to the garage and got into the back seat of the van we had driven to camp.  As I began to seek the Lord and allow Him to deal with me there, one of the young people came out to get a soft drink from the cooler we had brought.  I told them to take the whole cooler inside and keep everyone away so I could be alone.
    At this point I need to tell of two things God had done the weeks prior to going to camp which played a role in my salvation, and which are important to understanding how He worked saving faith in my life there in the van.  First, my wife and I attended the wedding of one of her cousins.  The preacher began the ceremony with the words, in part, '..we are gathered here to join this man and this woman in holy matrimony, which is a picture of that mystical union between Christ and His church.'  God impressed me that I needed to pay close attention to what took place there on that day.  The second thing God did was impress a verse on me during the Sunday evening service at our home church.  The verse was Acts 27:40, which says, 'And when they had taken up the anchors, they committed themselves to the sea, and loosed the rudder bands, and hois(t)ed up the mainsail to the wind, and made toward shore.'  At the time, the verse meant nothing to me but I was sure God was impressing me with it.  I thought maybe it was for another man in the church who was having a difficult time getting saved, and so I asked the preacher if we could go into his office and let me share it with him.  We did this and it did nothing for him either, so I determined it must be for later.  I believe God was showing me that the Word of God has no power until He makes it alive for us.  If we merely claim a verse of scripture, and try to believe it, we have a 'word only salvation.'  This is what many in our churches have today.
    To get back to what was going on in the back of the van, God was dealing with me to such a degree, by this time, that to describe the events that transpired takes longer than the actual events themselves took to unfold.  This is because some things were going on simultaneously, and the thought process is faster than speaking or reading.  I began to think back to the day of the wedding we had attended and how the groom had spoken his vows first, and then the bride spoke hers.  I told the Lord that He would have to commit Himself to me if I was to be saved.  But I also thought of John 2:24 where it says that Jesus would not commit Himself to those folks because He knew what was in their hearts.  I was concerned that He might not commit Himself to me, but He impressed me that He had committed to me before I was born and had continued to do so up to that day!  I was to commit to Him.  My problem became how to commit to Him in the proper way and be sure it was unto salvation.  I knew it was not just promising to serve Him.  I told the Lord I would have Him if He would have me and He began to reveal salvation to me through the verse He had impressed on me earlier.  It became the spoken Word of God; it was as if He was telling me Himself.
    The first thing God showed me was that I had to 'take up the anchors.'  This meant that everything I had built my faith on and had trusted in had to be taken up.  You see a person holds on to some things subconsciously even after they know they are lost.  This is why it sometimes takes a while for one to come to faith.  There are things beneath the surface that only God knows are there and only God can help one cast off.  I saw that none of my works was of any value, I was at the beginning again; lost and undone before God in the storm of my life.
    The next thing the verse says is, '...they committed themselves unto the sea.'  God showed me that this is different than what the world's idea of committing is.  To them the idea of committing to Christ is to promise, or make a decision, or take an oath of allegiance (as in the 'sinner's prayer').  True commitment in the context of the verse is 'to place at the mercy of that which has the power to deliver or destroy at its pleasure.'  The sea is what the men thought was going to destroy them, but they realized that it was also their only hope of salvation and so they gave themselves over to it.  It was then that the very thing they feared delivered them.  This is what Paul spoke of in II Timothy 1:12 when he said, 'I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have COMMITTED unto him against that day.'
    Next I had to 'loose the rudder bands.'  These bands were what gave the sailors control over the steering of the boat.  I had to let God be responsible, not only for how my life was to be directed, but also, how my salvation was to be accomplished.  It had to be entirely an operation of God.  He was going to have to save me His way if I was to be saved at all.  Jonah realized this when he said, from the belly of the whale, 'Salvation is of the Lord' (Jonah 2:9).
    After this I had to 'hoist up the mainsail to the wind,' which meant I had to allow the Spirit of God to fill me and carry me to Christ.  Finally I could 'make toward shore.'  I let the Spirit of God deliver me safely into the arms of the Lord Jesus Christ!  We see this in John 1:12 where it says, 'to as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the sons of God...'  Just as in John 21, when the disciples came to land they found bread, and fish upon the fire, and Jesus invited them to 'come and dine,' salvation was there in Him.
    The work took place so fast that I was surprised at first when God quit dealing with me.  I thought that He had left me since there was no more activity, but I realized it was because the work was done.  I had to look back on it and see that all the ingredients were there.  There was nothing to do but thank God and rest in it.  This was the 'peace that passeth understanding.'  It is a cessation of works and the flesh.  Thank the Lord it is no more of works!
    Some folks have the idea that when salvation comes God is going to speak to you and say, 'now you're saved,' or some such thing.  But true faith is when one stands on his faith and declares it himself.  This is what Romans 10:10 means when it says, 'For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.'  When I went in the house and told Brother Harbin and his wife, (I told them first because my wife was napping), there was a confidence and assurance that became even stronger as I told more and more people.  The next evening as I lay in the bed I looked up to heaven and asked God if it was real, and it was as if He came down in the room and held me in His arms.  I almost had a shouting spell, but didn't want to wake everyone.
    God has been so good to me over the years, even before I was saved, during the years of my empty profession, and I would like to write even more than I have written.  But I fear I have written much and said little, and to add to it would not make much difference.  Let me just add a few words of encouragement and admonition to what I have already given.  God is gracious and merciful and willing to save all who would be saved.  But do not trifle with your soul.  It is the most important thing that you possess.  The Bible says many will be deceived and say, 'Lord, Lord, have we not...'  But God will say to them, 'I never knew you...'  Get real salvation, which is the only kind God gives, and only God can give it.  Examine yourself with a good and honest heart.  Seek God earnestly and early.  Salvation is not in a prayer, a plan, a program, or a promise that one claims.  Salvation is in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.  There are certain ingredients that must be present if a work has been performed.  See if they are present in your experience.
    A person must experience conviction of sin as revealed by the Holy Spirit of God, not just have a guilty conscience.
    One must have godly sorrow rather than worldly sorrow.
    There must be true repentance, which is produced as a result of godly sorrow, not just remorse.
    Finally, God must allow one to exercise saving faith in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    This may or may not be expressed in prayer, but understand that no form prayer can be sufficient for all people in all circumstances.  If one prays and is saved, it is not the prayer that saved them.  It is the attitude that is worked by God, and which led them to pray.  When God moves on a person sufficiently to save them, they will know what He requires of them.  If the reader lacks any of the ingredients of salvation, I ask you to be honest and confess your lost condition to God and ask Him to grant you repentance and saving faith.  Don't let anything keep you from obtaining what is the greatest of all of the gifts God has to offer man.
    Thank you for taking the time to read this.  It is my prayer that you have been blessed and helped by it.  If this preacher can be of any further help to you, it would be a great honor and give joy to my heart.  I know there are many out there who are in the same condition I was in.  I hope this gives them the light to see it and the courage to confess it and address it.  Please feel free to contact me by letter, phone, or in person.  I can be reached at the address on the back cover of this booklet.
 You may also write and receive a list of the other materials we have printed, which are furnished at no cost as long as funds allow.  May the Lord bless you and may He get the glory and have pre-eminence in all things. Amen.

    Though I say this is a defense of my call to preach, I must say that what God has done ultimately needs no defending.  I give this in the hopes that it will help some who are truly struggling to understand it.  It is an explanation and clarification.  To those who would be critical and argumentative I am sure it will make little difference, but to some it may provide the answers they seek to the criticism they have likely heard put forth by those opposed to it.
    I will approach the subject from three separate positions; the scriptures, reason, and the experience of others.  Admittedly, the last two are the weakest of the arguments, and if they were all I had to base my defense on it would be built on a feeble foundation.  And the scriptures should be sufficient argument to stand alone, but if reason and experience are set on the foundation of the scriptures, they become a house that cannot be shaken.  Indeed, a foundation is meant to built upon to provide a habitation to dwell in.
    To begin with, we see in the scripture clear indication that God calls men before they are saved.  All things that God has done were done before the foundation of the earth, and certainly before we were born, including Christ's selection as our sacrifice, the choosing of his saints [which involves a call to salvation], and the call of preachers to preach.

    Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. - John 17:24
    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: - Ephesians 1:4
    Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
     - I Peter 1:20
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  -  Revelation 13:8.

    Several individuals in the scripture made mention that they were set apart and called before their birth, including Isaiah, and Paul, and it is said of John the Baptist.

    Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.  -  Isaiah 49:1
    And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb [to be] his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.  -  Isaiah 49:5
    For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.  -  Luke 1:15
    But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace,  -  Galatians 1:15

    Jacob was chosen and Esau was rejected before either was born and it was not because of something they did or would do after their birth.

    (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. -Romans 9:11-13

    We could speak yet of David who was called and even anointed to be king long before the event ever took place to demonstrate the validity of the concept of one being called before they are saved.
    Certainly the disciples were called before they were saved.  Space prohibits, or I could give even more evidence to substantiate the claim set forth in this section of the call of lost men to the work of God.
    The most compelling scriptural proof of a call to preach coming before salvation, however, is that of the apostle Paul.  In Acts 9:1-20 the account of Paul's conversion is given by Luke and is not clear as to when Paul was called to preach, but is clear as to when he was saved.  It would have to be said that it was in verse 18, after Ananias came to him according to the commandment of the Lord, and him receiving his sight and receiving the Holy Spirit.  Yet in chapter 26, verses 13-20, we have Paul's own account of the events.  It is here that Paul states clearly that his call to preach was at the time of his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, three days earlier.
    Let me say at this point that God does not always reveal the call to a man while he is still lost.  Indeed, in most cases this is not so.  Until God has saved a person they are usually ignorant of the fact that God even calls anyone, much less that he has called them.  So the argument ultimately comes down to whether a lost man can be made aware of his call while yet lost.  Does God ever impress a man with the call before He saves him?  I am convinced that He does, and that I am one of these persons.
    Let me proceed to the argument of reason and explain how I believe it happened in my life that I was called before I was saved.
    As you have read in my testimony, there were four times I experienced a move of God on my life before my call to preach.  One was at twelve years of age, one at fourteen, one at the revival meeting in 1978, and one during the camp meeting of 1978.  One or several of these were calls to salvation, yet for one reason or another I was unable to get it.  At twelve years of age I believe it was due to lack of knowledge.  I had not been around the things of God long enough to understand much.  Also, as I stated earlier, this may have just been the early stirring of an interest in spiritual things.  At fourteen it was either something lacking in me or something amiss in the way I was dealt with.  At the revival meeting it was an improper view of who and what I was, and of what I needed.  At the camp meeting it was a distraction which led me away from close examination of what was going on.  I honestly believe if there had been someone with the proper discernment to help me at the revival meeting I would have been able to see my true condition and likely have gotten saved there.  Then when I experienced my call to preach at camp Zion, no one would have had a problem with it, as it would have been after my salvation experience.  It was a matter of missed opportunity and missed timing on my part.  Time means nothing to God, but timing is critical and crucial.
    When a person misses God's timing on one thing, it does not necessarily mean they will miss His timing on everything.  In fact, if I had missed the call to preach, I might not have stayed in church long enough to be truly saved.  I am convinced that God used my call to preach to keep me interested in the things of God and to continue to draw me to a point where I could be saved.  Even when I became discouraged and through the dry times it was, to a great extent, my desire to preach and help people that kept me going in the ways of God.  And had I gotten saved earlier than I did, I might not have been at the proper place to be united with the individuals God wanted me to be linked to at this point in my life.  I believe God is in control of every circumstance, and He knew what it would take to keep me coming along the narrow way and striving to enter the strait gate.
    Finally, as to the experience of other individuals in receiving a call to preach prior to their salvation I will mention some who the reader will likely not be familiar with.  This does not mean that the reader has no reason to be confident in their calls.  If one desires it I am certain that these men will share the complete details of their individual experiences.  These are but a few of many that could be listed.
    The first preacher that I became aware of that had this testimony was Brother Charles Shipman from Wets Helena, Arkansas.  He preached for fourteen years lost.  His testimony is available in printed form for those who are interested in having it.
    Another is Brother Edgar Paschall, who now pastors in Kentucky.  I heard him preach at camp Zion for several years before he was genuinely saved.
    I found out that this is also the testimony of Brother Percy Ray from Myrtle, Mississippi, though I did not hear it from him directly.  He told this to Brother Shipman when Brother Charles confided to him that he was lost.
 Brother Terry Owen from Pontotoc, Mississippi is another who preached for five years lost, and graduated from Bible College lost.  Indeed, one of the reasons he was able to recognize my condition, and was able to help me, is because he had experienced the same things as I was experiencing.
    There are two things that I would like to say in closing this section.  First, how it has come to be that so many are surrendering to the call to preach and getting saved later.  This is because in the day and time which we live in salvation has been reduced to saying words or believing Bible verses, and has placed the emphasis on man.  Testimonies of salvation are puny and pitiful, yet they pass muster in most quarters.  Men who have had God move on them and could have been saved if left alone, were forced into an act which aborted the work of God and got 'religion' instead.  Those who God had on His mind to call to preach would still be called, and would ultimately be saved, because God will win in their lives.  The call to preach was recognized by them because, fortunately, the call to preach is still regarded as something that God puts forth to a man, and is often scrutinized closer than a preacher's salvation testimony.  Men are more careful to be sure of a call to preach than to say they are saved.  They know that other preachers will critique this call more than whether they are saved.  (This is in part due to preacher's desire to keep the club exclusive).
    God's desire is that all preachers be saved preachers, but until we begin to straighten out and return to old fashioned practices to ensure that folks really get saved, the problem will not improve.  In fact, it will surely get worse.  Thankfully, the Lord is raising up some men who are willing to sacrifice their reputation among other preachers to address the problem and speak the truth in love.  Those who hope to restore the ways of salvation so that men will be saved and called in what most consider the 'proper order.'
    Second, I believe there are many preachers out there who need to be saved, though they may truly be called to preach.  Many are even propping up on their call to preach to sustain them in their misguided belief that they are saved.  (Brother Paschall has an excellent booklet titled 'Spiritual Crutches' the reader may wish to obtain.  It is available by writing him directly, or through us, e-mailing your request).  Many force themselves to hang on to a testimony that they don't even remember due to their being three and four years old when it supposedly happened, and that is constantly nagging them with doubts and uncertainty.  I have actually heard preachers who say they base their salvation on what mom and dad told them about it!  They say, "I must be saved because I have been called to preach!"  The tragedy of this is that their second-hand testimony of salvation would be accepted by most of those who question my call to preach coming while I was lost!  I know this is not a popular thing to say, but it is the truth!  Jesus said many things in His day that were not well received.  Remember that the disciples said to Jesus in John 6:60, regarding His teaching on salvation, 'This is a hard saying, who can hear it?'
    If the reader is one of those who is propping on a call to preach to bolster a weak salvation testimony, may God give you the grace to get honest and prayerfully seek His face and real salvation.
    For the reader who struggled to reconcile my testimony with what others have told them is correct, it is my hope that you have been helped by this explanation. - J. M. G.